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An Interview with noted American
Audio Dramatist
YURI RASOVSKY.
Recorded the 16 July 2002.
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| Yuri Rasovsky has worked professionally
in theater and broadcasting as actor, writer, director and producer for
nearly 30 years. Since he founded the National Radio Theater (1972-1987),
he has created hundreds of radio productions heard on commercial and public
radio outlets around the world. |
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Rasovsky is the most honored Audio Dramatist working
in the United States. Over the past 3 decades he has won two
George Foster Peabody awards, five Ohio State awards, The APA
Audie Award, four Major Armstrong awards, two Corporation
for Public Broadcasting awards, The Independent Publishers Audio Award,
The Gabriel Award, The Joseph Jefferson Award, the NFCB Golden Reel, the
Mark
Time Lifetime Achievement Award and the SFWA Bradbury Award.
He is also contributing editor, to AudioFile ®
magazine.
For the millennium he created 2000X
for NPR, a series of 40 plays with science fiction themes. He is currently
the executive producer/director of The
Hollywood Theater of the Ear .
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GREGG: Science Fiction and Audio Theatre. Where's
it at, at the moment in the United States?
RASOVSKY: The majority of radio drama or audio
drama in the United States right now is Science Fiction. Very bad science
fiction in fact. A lot of it is influenced by HITCH-HIKER
and by Tom Lopez's ZBS work. And a lot of it is just silly puerile stuff
done by amateurs. And I think that the revival in interest in the production
of radio drama that is now 5 or 6 years old, is a product of the cheap
digital Pro-Tools-like equipment that fits in somebody's garage or basement
or spare room. That allows one to do things that were formerly only do-able
in a professional production studio filled to the brim with expensive
equipment. And so this ability to put this stuff together relatively inexpensively
with your friends and relations has caused a great deal of interest. And
Science Fiction is ideal for people masturbating at equipment because
it would employ all the toys for all the special futuristic effects.
GREGG: At the sacrifice of good acting and a solid
script ?
RASOVSKY: Well not at a sacrifice because most
of these people aren't capable of those things.
GREGG: When you single out HITCH-HIKER'S
and Tom Lopez's work with ZBS
are you in a sense blaming them or just saying that they are the biggies
and everyone tries to emulate them?
RASOVSKY: Well I don't know if you'd call Tom
Lopez a biggie. He is extremely popular within certain circles. And I
can't blame him for that. The work that Tom does, although it's not to
my particular taste, is unquestionably excellent. And he is a genius in
his way. The same is true of HITCH-HIKER. It's a one-of-a-kind
sort of thing.
GREGG: Can you review the history of radio drama
in the U.S. since the 70's?
RASOVSKY: Well… in the United States, there occurred
in the early 70's a phenomenon that was a two edged sword. Because of
Public Radio, it now became possible to put radio drama back on the air
and to combine with the American tradition of production - which I admire
- from the OTR days, a new emphasis on content, good writing, and more
than just low comedy and melodrama which is all that was on American radio
in it's heyday. So that was the good part. And it sparked a sort of a
revival of interest, not as great as the one today, but far more influential;
in so far as Earplay, cornered some big big money from the
NEA because of it's affiliation with NPR, and was commissioning major
playwrights to do radio work. I started then.
The CBS Mystery Theatre started
then on commercial radio and was a success. And Tom Lopez started then.
And this fizzled out in the middle 80's. And was never huge anyhow. ….
Earplay was a terribly over-produced
programme. So when NPR decided it had better uses for that NEA money that
was going to Earplay--and money they shouldn't have gotten
anyway--and they kind of gave him [Carl Schmit JR, Director of Earplay]
a gold watch. ….
In the meantime, Lopez and I saw the handwriting
on the wall. …We were going to loose radio as a venue. Lopez was able
to act on it in a way that I couldn't. When the slump finally began in
money, which was immediately after the Reagan administration, he was able
to survive. …. He had begun his initiative in commercial recording.
GREGG: When you say commercial recording you mean
releasing recordings for sale?
RASOVSKY: Yes. And I was in a position myself of
being able to raise huge amounts of money for radio drama but only at
the expense of marketing. What I'm saying is that at the time you needed
a sheer bulk of material in order to make a dent in the public consciousness.
You needed regularly slotted times to put this on so people get in the
habit of listening to it and who would miss it when it was gone. But the
only way I could raise decent money was by doing specials. Get large amounts
of money in advance for projects that take 2 or 3 years or more to finish.
And then be on the air for a very limited amount of time. 5 episodes.
15 episodes. And then I'd have to go back and do another special which
would take another 2 to 3 to 5 years.
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So I ended being known for these big specials
like 2000X. And Science Fiction seemed to be appropriate at
the time that I did it for NPR because it was the turn of the millennium
and this was supposed to be a celebration of the new millennium by looking
backwards at how science fiction authors had looked at the future. Be that
as it may, these new science-fiction loving producers now dominate the production
of audio drama in the U.S., and they are by and large lousy or not professional
enough to gain the ear of new listeners. |
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GREGG: How will they gain the ear of new listeners?
RASOVSKY: By being better.
GREGG: Yeah…But you could end up like Emily Dickinson
and put them all in a box, then die and then some one later can find them
and do what with them to bring them to an audience?
RASOVSKY: That's the thing that Lopez and I discussed
in the early 80's. And that is commercial recording. And the Internet.
A lot of these guys who can't get anybody to look at their work, and who
can't even afford the packaging… throw it up on the Internet. And offer
it for free, hoping that somebody's going to find them and take it down.
So the Internet is becoming a big source. There is even, as you know,
this whole sub-genre of Dr. Who audio spin-offs.
GREGG: Fan stuff? Fan generated?
RASOVSKY: Fan generated audio based on, or inspired
by, Dr. Who. And there are tons of it. Radio drama otherwise
either thrives in areas where there is some cultural reason for it - cultural-political.
For instance in Germany where Kulture is a big deal. And of course in
Britain, there's the BBC.. There is some tradition there and 'whether
any one listens to it or not, it is going to stay on the air'.
RASOVSKY: Since the 1920's since the first radio
stations went on the air, till now, there has never been a time when there
has been no radio drama on the air or radio drama being produced and heard
in the United States. … In certain areas of the world where TV is difficult,
because of terrain, such as mountainous countries like Greece or the Balkans,
radio drama is still a going concern. The best I've heard of any in the
world is Serbo-Croatian. They make the BBC look like amateurs. But on
the other hand if you've ever been around the European community producers
and National Networks, you begin to understand that the people that they
hire… and the people who want the jobs, are not very good. Because if
they were, they wouldn't be doing radio drama they'd be out pursuing something
lucrative. And something that would bring them prestige as well as money.
Television, for instance. And the stuff that you hear from RAI [the Italian
Network], the little that's done in France, or the stuff that's done in
the Scandinavian countries, is appalling! They're just stupid.
I remember being at an EBU meeting of radio dramatists
and …we were playing excerpts of things that we wanted to impress other
people with …our best stuff, and the RAI people, the Italian network pulled
out their radio version of Ingmar Bergman's The Silence.
Now here is something challenging to do to do on radio. A movie, a brilliant
movie in fact, with incredibly strong visuals, practically no dialogue,
and you're going to do that on radio?
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This would be
very interesting. It was the only movie I ever saw that used a Sherman
Tank as a phallic symbol. And all it was, was some guy reading the screenplay
translated into Italian with a few sound effects. That's all it was! And
after we listened to this…. the floor was open to questions and some one
else asked: 'Why didn't you use the soundtrack from the film?' You know
as a serious aesthetic question. And they pondered this as if it was serious
and gave the group a closely-reasoned answer that made absolutely no sense….
And I popped up and said; 'You know I did The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
on radio and I didn't use the soundtrack either.' Only one person in that
room got that joke - that I was doing a radio version of a silent film.
And in fact Ronnie Mason, who used to run the BBC Radio Drama Department,
said 'What do you want a medal?' He didn't get it.
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GREGG: Why do you do it? You're 'The world's most
famous unknown radio producer' Why not just pack it all in and go into
films?
RASOVSKY: For one thing, I'm not motivated by money,
prestige, fame. I want to do good work and get it in front of an audience.
For another, I love working in radio. For a third, I'm too damn old for
anybody to consider me doing anything else. ….And when you're talking
about Sci Fi Radio, there are things that I'd rather do with my time than
science fiction. But I can't deny that science fiction -fantasy of any
type is a perfect thing for radio, for audio. Audio is inherently expressionistic.
Not only that but everything is equally real. Even a footfall is a special
effect. So it's not much of a leap to go from a footfall, to a Martian,
to world cataclysms, to anything and be able to make the transition in
a flash! In addition to which it's a great medium for a writer because
it's a way to combine story telling and literary values, normally found
in print fiction, with drama. It becomes very difficult in any other dramatic
medium, but it's natural to radio. Now, I don't know if you're aware of
this, but you do it, because I have heard in some of your stuff, things
that are genuinely poetic, very fine, fine writing. Mellifluous and expressive
and image-conjuring writing.
GREGG: Well thank you. I like word play and rapid-fire
stuff. I marvel at craft of like the best moments of the Marx Brothers.
RASOVSKY: I know that you like it, because you
do an awful lot of it. But you're achievement is not there. Your humour
is funny and especially so for a very literate individual. But your achievement
is, I think, in that lyricism that you're capable of. That's peculiarly
Irish. You might have picked it up just by being there.
GREGG: Maybe. I've been here in Ireland for 23
years.
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RASOVSKY: Well, there you are. I think in that regard
that your stuff is far more vivid than Lopez's. Now Lopez does things
with a combination of fairly utilitarian dialogue, music and a very discreet
use of sound, to give the audience something to look at. And he does it
better than I've heard anybody else do it. … Ruby is supposed to be his
magnum opus, but Dinotopia, a kid's book, that he did strictly for commercial
reasons, is a masterpiece!
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GREGG: I agree.
GREGG: So what would you advise an young aspiring
science fiction writer, in terms of the possibilities of audio theatre?
RASOVSKY: What would I do if I were a young science
fiction writer? Well it depends on what I thought this guy's ambitions
were. If you want to make a material success out of yourself - Stay out
of radio. Stay out of audio. If your ambition is to do good work, and
to get it before an audience, and have a stimulating time doing it, then
consider audio as an option, but one of others, because it's very difficult
right now for us. Follow the example of J.Michael Strazjinski [creator
of BABYLON 5] … very much admired as a successful science
fiction guy. Now that he's a success he gets a hold of the Sci Fi Channel,
and their Seeing Ear Theatre and he does some radio for
them. For a while he had a local show on radio here in southern California
in which he discussed science fiction and at that time he first dabbled
in doing science fiction radio drama. So he's got a couple of things that
are out now on cassette. He had nothing to loose. He didn't put his own
money into it, the Sci Fi Channel paid for it. And he didn't make any
money either. But that wasn't his goal. He was making plenty of money
elsewhere. And he's already established, so why not? But realize that
audio drama may seem easy to do, but is actually the most difficult kind
of theater to pull off.
GREGG: Thoughts on current Audio Theatre trends
and what the future may bring
RASOVSKY: There is an encouraging sign as far as
audio drama is concerned--if I'm right in my perception. And that is,
as a theatre man I have noticed that in any given community where there
is no theatre, they say you can't build an audience if there isn't one
there. But they are wrong. Some people, mostly amateurs, may decide that
they want to do theatre. And they create product. And it may not be good
but it's there. Nobody wants to come and see it. So they languish. But
what that inevitably does is spark someone else to form a clique of their
own because they can't get into this clique, and start their own theatre.
And pretty soon there's a bunch of these guys, mounting plays that nobody
wants to come and see. Just friends and relations. Inevitably an audience
does arrive, comes along and starts demanding better. Better quality.
And I think that that is happening now with radio drama.
That the first step in building an audience is to
put out product even though no one is listening to it. And these first
guys whether they're good or not, they're going to put out enough activity
to attract some attention and they're going to build audiences for the
people who are going to be good. And the ones who aren't good are going
to fall by the wayside, because once there's an audience, the audience
is going to be demanding and they're going to want better stuff. They
may be indulgent in the beginning, but sooner or later, they are going
to want better stuff. Especially, as often happens, a theatre community
will often get complacent.
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If all these guys are roughly on the same technical
and artistic level, they'll coast there because they can get away with
it. A new guy comes to town who tries a little harder, does a little better
and then they all scramble to meet that standard. And once they do they
can afford to be complacent again, until a new guy comes to town who then
raises the bar. Now I may be wrong, but I think that that is what may
be happening now when it comes to audio drama. The key thing is that it's
not going to happen on radio. Radio is a means to an end. Radio is one
way of getting people to buy material that is offered on the Internet,
on MP3, on CD, on cassette, and on whatever other medium that is going
to come along.
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And broadcast radio itself going to be just one of
several promotional media and others may even be more important. It is
not going to be the be-all and end-all, that once you're on the air, you
have reached your goal. It's a means to an end. And that's all for the
best. In radio, some moron programme director who doesn't want to be a
programme director, has no gift for it, has no idea who his audience is,
and is only reading whatever his NPR research is telling him, and then
if he doesn't feel like it, he doesn't implement it, because he's just
plain lazy, this is the guy who is the mediator, the middleman, between
you and your audience. Do you want this guy mediating between you and
your audience?? Shit. I would rather get this stuff out in front of a
public and have the public decide we want it or we don't want it. And
if I fail or succeed, it is because the audience, not some ass-hole arbiter
of taste, tells me I deserve to fail or succeed.
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